J.C. Freeman: Tennis Director Extraordinaire

Broudy:  I'm Jack Broudy, your host on Living at the 45 today it is my great pleasure and honor to bring you one of my good friends in Broudy tennis and uh in Birmingham Alabama and J. C. Freeman. He is the director of tennis at the Inverness Country Club, the Inverness Tennis part of the Inverness Country Club. And he's got a terrific program and he's really got it together. So directors are gonna really want to see this because J. C. Has got a nice program with about five or six pros working under him a very full palette when it comes to adults juniors. Everybody runs a big tournament, their host the U. S. P. T. A. Conventions and whatnot over there and just um I believe he is the vice president of the U. S. P. Ta Alabama division and just a very bright guy and I think you're gonna really enjoy today's conversation as much as I will. So without any further ado. J. C. Freeman meet all your tennis fans out there.

J.C. Freeman:  Hello fans. Well Jack, I appreciate the kind words as always and uh man we we could if you're gonna flatter me like that we could do this every friday

Broudy:  because that

J.C. Freeman:  was very generous of you but yeah so uh and and you know the feeling is mutual so thank you for for being a great friend and all your your mentoring and all that good stuff and the first thing I would want anybody to here is what success we do have here uh tribute a lot of that to you in your health with everything. So thanks for all that. You do an honor to be on this podcast and excited. This is my uh, it was actually my second podcast to be on. So, but my first tennis one. So for me, yeah.

Broudy:  What was the first one like nuclear physics or something or?

J.C. Freeman:  Well, you know, uh, something had

Broudy:  to be about

J.C. Freeman:  rental, rental property stuff, but you know, much more boring than, than whatever you said. Um, but

Broudy:  let me, let me, let me kick it off by asking you a little bit to explain a little bit more about the Inverness Program tennis program and why it's doing why you think it's doing so well and then, you know, and then we can get into a little bit more of the minutia of it all. But, but in general,

J.C. Freeman:  Yeah, no, I mean, God, Well, first of all, I mean when you're, when you're running an organization, I mean, we're not a huge organization, but we're big enough, you know, so there's, there's

Broudy:  Got 16 courts. That's, that's nothing to Scott that. That's a pretty good sized club.

J.C. Freeman:  Yeah. Yeah. So we, and we actually were lucky enough. I think we have, well, I'm certainly have the most number of courts for a private club. A fully private club in Birmingham, potentially the state. I think there's some bigger ones out there. But yeah, we're very fortunate with the facility, it's a beautiful facility. The courts drained. Well, they were they were built well uh and and it's almost as, I mean you've been here a few times now, it's just a beautiful location, you know what I mean?

Broudy:  It is, I love coming over there and working with your guys. I just I love the location, I love the people, I love your members, they're great and your praise,

J.C. Freeman:  yeah, the membership is fantastic. So really the most credit goes to them. But yeah, so, so there's just a lot of things um there's a lot of variables involved and everyone has to be on the same page and uh everyone has to share the same vision and so, you know, we've been fortunate enough to to do that to execute that uh you know, I've got great support from my Gm uh and that's a huge help. So yeah, you know, I think, and I'm gonna steal this from um the Gm of the L. A. Rams. So I think that's somebody that may be decent to learn from, but you know, keeping the main thing about the main thing that was kind of their mantra as an organization and so, you know, we do a good job of that, you know, keeping the main thing about the main thing and for us that is empowering people through tennis, right? So you know that at the end of the day, that's what we're all trying to do, whether that's, you know, one of my assistants, you know, teaching an incredible tennis lesson or my shop manager just, you know, greeting someone with a smile. You know, I mean, it's just it's it's having that common goal as an organization. Uh, and everybody does, it's much bigger than me. You know, one person can't do it obviously, but everybody does a phenomenal job of, of buying into this vision that we want. Right, mm

Broudy:  hmm. You know, the last three or four years I've been out there, what about three times and every time was terrific. And one thing I noticed was all your pros, all your members. It's just a very light atmosphere. Everyone gets along, everyone is having fun. Everyone really, you know, it doesn't seem to be like the same strain, competitive strain you get at other clubs between the pros between the members even. I mean, not that I know you got your leagues and everyone's trying to win, but it's just a very friendly atmosphere. And I was wondering, you know, how do you get all your pros and all the players there that seem to be on the same page. Now, maybe it's just when I come and everyone is doing the figure eight

J.C. Freeman:  behavior

Broudy:  maybe. But it does seem like a very nice light atmosphere

J.C. Freeman:  of

Broudy:  place I think would be great to be a member of or work at or worked at like and how do you get everyone to be like that?

J.C. Freeman:  Yeah. Well, uh, yeah, you know, first of all, it's very meaningful and I really appreciate you just even noticing that, I mean, that's exactly what we want people to experience and feel and notice. So I'm very excited to hear that. You know, I think, man, there's a lot to say about it, a giving credit to our membership, but so you can't make anybody do anything, right? I mean, I think, you know, this is a coach, right? And unfortunately, I think a lot of us start out thinking that we can, right. You know, I'm the coach. You know, I can make people do things and you know, I've got to make this person make, you know, the same choices that I want them to make, you know, etcetera, etcetera. And you know, eventually you realize, hey, you can't make choices for somebody else. Okay, again, the word we like to use is in power. So it's so from the perspective of, of doing everything I can to empower my staff, right? The system is a big part of that. So, you know, I've never said, hey, this is how we do it here and you have to do this. And if you want to ask me why my answer is gonna be, because I said, so, well, that's quite frankly not the culture we want and that's a real quick way two, you know, ruin your culture, right? So, you know, especially amongst your staff and if, if your culture is not strong with your staff, it's not gonna, it's gonna affect your members, right? Um So anyways uh huh you just uh the system, we lean on the system and rely on the system to empower all of us.

Broudy:  So you're talking about our system, the tennis system are

J.C. Freeman:  Brodt system. That's

Broudy:  right.

J.C. Freeman:  So so for example, so I got here right? And so Joey Francis is my head pro and he does a phenomenal job. So he's been here, he was here for 2-3 years before I started here. Um and that that was, you know, I mean I think that happens pretty often, right, but it was definitely a situation that you you know, we had to navigate together. I mean he was used to doing things a certain way and here I am uh I'm not trying to be disruptive, but just the nature of the situation is fairly disruptive, right? Because I'm introducing new things and new concepts, right?

Broudy:  Plus he's been here a couple of years before you so he might feel a little bit of, you know, territorial integrity, like hey what's this guy doing here?

J.C. Freeman:  Yeah, exactly. Jack, give me 1 2nd. Uh huh. My laptop was low on juice thing. So anyway

Broudy:  um Yeah,

J.C. Freeman:  so you just gotta be patient and and I think you you you eventually uh the system is it's bigger than one person, right? Than any one person. And so you just you just you kind of create this environment of hey this is what I think about this and this is how I'd like it to be done. How do you feel about it? You know, and you just, you make sure that your staff and your coaches understand that you really have their best interests at heart and you're going to patiently help them understand this and answer questions they have, and again at the end of the day I'm here to empower them, I'm not here to be a dictator, right? Um and it takes time, but eventually, you know, with how strong our culture is and how beneficial the Broudy system is uh you can't you kind of can't not start using it because it works so well and it really simplifies the game. Um and it just makes coaching even more rewarding because you really start to help people um and then, you know, maybe organizationally to, I think it is important to be upfront and transparent with, you know, who you decided to bring here. So you know, when we're looking for a new pro, I mean we've had to hire um you know, three new pros, four new pros since I've been here. Um you know, the first thing I do is when they reach out and say, hey I really appreciate your interest, you know, check out this book, it's Jack Broudy's e book, The Secrets of the Natural athlete, It's what 10 pages,

Broudy:  it's pretty quick, right?

J.C. Freeman:  It's a quick, quick, easy read. Uh, and you know, hey, read this e book and then just get back to me and let me know your thoughts, you know, And I think that kind of sets the tone to where somebody is going, okay. I kinda understand what this place is about. You know, hopefully it excites them. And from there, it just, it sparks that conversation. You know, and, and again, you know, I make sure to phrase it like that, you know, let me know your thoughts, not, hey, this is how we do it and you're not going to have a choice to do anything else. I mean, it's just, you know, because that that's not going to empower anybody. Yeah. And and not to sound harsh too, but you know, there's also, you know, you start to figure out how that person or that individual operates professionally. So it's like, uh, you know, hey, if if you can't read a, you know, a five page book and get back to me and let me know your thoughts. Well, this, you know, I mean when anybody's looking for a new job, they're always on their best behavior, right?

Broudy:  Right. You

J.C. Freeman:  know, So if they can't do that simple task, uh, it's not, it's not a good start. I'm not gonna maybe, you know, write somebody off entirely, but I'm definitely going to tread warily.

Broudy:  Sure, you want to see what they're willing to sacrifice the work. They're willing to put in right away just to get the job

J.C. Freeman:  Exactly, exactly. So, you know, so just start from there. So, you know, so I have this vision, I can come in and, and my goal is to, you know, empower my 10 power, Joey my head pro and then, you know, he has a very positive experience from it and then we bring somebody else on board And you know, the same thing happens with them. And the next thing, you know, when you have 5-6 pros teaching out of here, uh you've got a really strong positive culture

Broudy:  and you're all on the same page, so there's no, there's no student taking from one guy saying, well, this right, told me to do this and this one said, use my hips, everyone's sort of on the same page. So there's not as much combativeness, I guess.

J.C. Freeman:  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it really does a phenomenal job of removing the ego, right? And, and we all know, you know, and that's a tough balance, especially with tennis coaches because, you know, it's hard not to have an ego because you're kind of the one in charge, you're, you know, you're the one who's, you know, making a lot of the decisions and you're responsible for helping that person improve, you know, so, you know, it's tough to find that balance of taking pride in that, but also not letting it get to your head, which is, which is challenging, you know, so and the really the the thing that, you know, and that was something that, you know, really before ah I met you and learned the system. You know, we had the Davis Cup was played here in Birmingham a couple of times. And so the U. S. T. A high performance program brought The top 414 and under boys in the country to a facility here in town and they did a workout. So me and my buddy went and there's phenomenal workout, uh good, good people there watching. And so um, I mean john would not remember me, but his name is john glover and I think he's still with the U. S. T. A. But they obviously let us ask questions afterwards. And so I said, hey, I said, john, I said, you know, what are y'all really focusing on as an organization when it comes to developing these players, you know, and he said a few different things, but one thing that certainly stood out to me was he goes and we figured out we had to have a universal language, you know, so one could Would be with one coach for two years and being pulled in a certain direction. And then once they got to, you know, that was 10-12 and then once they got to 12 they got with another coach and then that coach pulled him in another direction, right and and so so on and so forth. And he said we just had to have a universal language. Now I wish there universal language was the Broudy system, but you know, the universal language for us is the Broudy system, right? And the best thing about it too is I think there's kind of, this can uh, this idea out there, hey, if you go somewhere and you work somewhere and they're gonna want things done a certain way. It's like we don't want you to be in an, an individual and we're trying to interrupt your coaching style well, and I didn't have the foresight for this, but it's really been incredible, especially with the Broudy system to where like you were saying when, when, when the individual can't get caught up on the actual information they're receiving, right? And everybody is confident and knows that we're all going to be teaching essentially the same thing, the same system. It really has allowed us as a staff to really be ourselves and it really lets our personality shine because again, nobody is getting caught up on what we're what we're saying, right? Or the fact that we're saying something different. Right? So that has been a, you know, really pleasant surprise from, from the Broudy system because in having this universal language because, you know, um we really get to be ourselves and people appreciate that, right. Does that make sense?

Broudy:  Yeah, it's interesting. Uh yeah, universal language. Well, that's that's a good point because we all have different personalities when I get out there with you guys once a year. Um I'm sure, you know, I say a few things that are a little different, but it's still the same,

J.C. Freeman:  right?

Broudy:  The same. So yeah, I follow you and I know it certainly gives you confidence and I think that's really that's important with tennis pros because a lot of pros, they might act cocky, but that's kind of the way it wasn't the juniors to all the really top 10 players. I remember when I was a kid and I wasn't in the top 10. Remember how? Yeah, well I was eventually, but not when I got out, not in the twelve's not the, not the 14th and I got out there and I was like, God, these guys are just jerks and I think, I think they acted that way to hide insecurities. And I think tennis pros that too. They kind of act a little jerky and a little tough. Yeah, just so you don't question them, Not 100% sure what they're doing

J.C. Freeman:  right. I mean they're they're a little insecure. I mean, and we all have our insecurities, but um you know, it's well there's I mean there's a lot on the line. I mean it's their livelihood, right? I mean it's it's and it's their pride in all of those things and so, you know, and I've been there too. You know, I mean when you, when you mention, you know that about the pros and you know, how they kind of just kind of flare up a little bit when someone questions, hey, you know, is this really how I should do it? You know what I mean? That kind of reminds me of like, my first exposure to you in the Broudy system, you know, I was a hardworking coach, um, I was very knowledgeable, you know, I was bringing stuff online, I was listening to podcast. I was, I mean, you name it, right? The one Yeah, you know, Andy three, but that's another, another conversation, another story, but uh, yeah, but but you know, I mean, you just, I couldn't help but ask, like, you know, so I would be called, we would drill something into the ground with somebody, one of my students and then we go to a tournament, I take them to a tournament and it's like they would get waxed by a kid that's doing something completely different and I knew it, I could see it, but I didn't know, I didn't know why they were doing what they did, right? And, and so, you know, all of those questions that I were at that, that I started asking myself. Yeah, I mean, it was tough because it, it did lead to some self doubt, you know, hey, am I really that good of a coach, do I really know what I'm talking about and those are, those are difficult questions to ask because it does affect your confidence. It can, you know, and it can affect your self esteem, um, but but you also can't just sweep them under the rug, you know, I mean, you owe it to yourself and you owe it to your students uh to continue learning and being the best coach, trying to become the best coach you can uh and that's really when I, you know, got that email from you just out of the blue and I called called you and was completely 110% surprise you actually picked up,

Broudy:  you

J.C. Freeman:  were a robot anyways to begin with and and here we are, you know, and, and so, um, yeah, it's, but I get it. I mean, I think that's also the point is, and that probably helps with our culture, you know, I've been there before, you know, and I understand,

Broudy:  well, I'm sure your students and the students of Joey and all those guys there, Dakota and Jacob and I'm sure you having confidence and all your prose having confidence gives your students and players. That also that feeling of confidence. Like, hey, I can see, I can see the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I can see it, you know, it

J.C. Freeman:  does, it does, you know, and you know, that also makes me think too, I mean, so yeah, I mean that usually happens and then, you know, the Broudy system unfortunately is still not mainstream, right? Um and I Cali I just, you know, get so excited and I think, and hope every day that that changes, but, but it's not, you know, right now, you

Broudy:  know, it's still, tennis is still taught by tips and hard work, you know, just a few tips here and there and then work hard and if it's not working for you, you're not working hard enough. So the onus is really on the student and I do think, I do think that makes the student a little more miserable. I think when the coach takes a little bit more of the onus on themselves and takes the pressure off the student, oh, it's not working well, let's do this instead. You're not, you're not doing one of the three fundamentals rather than, hey, you need to hit another 1000 balls and you'll get it

J.C. Freeman:  right, right, Well, you know, and yeah, I mean, come on, let's let's, I mean, who who do you have to be to tell somebody to work hard, you know, I mean, and that's what I loved about the Broudy system is, you know, and it's all the same. I mean, whether you're trying to become a better tennis player, you're trying to become a better director. I mean, whatever you're trying to do, I mean, you can only work so hard eventually, you gotta make choices to work smart, right? And, and to me, I mean, that's one thing that I love about the Broudy system because it really I mean that's what it is, right? In a nutshell is its working smart

Broudy:  and

J.C. Freeman:  you can work hard with it. That's great. You know, do both if you can if you want to, but if you had to choose one or the other, why would you go with working hard? I mean

Broudy:  just work smart,

J.C. Freeman:  Right? And then and honestly to I think probably ironically that's what you gotta do first because once you start working smart then it becomes even more enjoyable and rewarding to work hard because you know, you're on the right track,

Broudy:  right? Right? You're not just getting balls for no reason.

J.C. Freeman:  Yeah, for sure. Yeah. You know, I mean look, yeah, work hard everybody,

Broudy:  you know. Yeah, I know there's so many, there's so many questions we have to do this again, but let me ask one or two more before I let you go because you and I could talk tennis, you

J.C. Freeman:  know,

Broudy:  all morning. No, we're not done that done. But I I have a few questions I wanted to ask but I'll get to some of them, how about the players that come to you? And this happens all the time, especially juniors from other clubs. What's the experience for them? What's the experience for you all? You know, you and your coaches and when you get juniors or even adults from other clubs, what's what goes through your mind?

J.C. Freeman:  Yes, so, uh so though if I had to choose one word, it would be uh skepticism, right, because it really can't be any other way, because, you know, you've got somebody who's been who trusts another coach and they've been working with them probably for a significant amount of time, and they've been told to do things one way, and then knowingly they're trying to find something better, and that's even kind of what's ironic is knowingly they're searching for something better, and then you present it to them and and there's they're skeptical at first, but they really, I don't think it could be any other way, you know, I mean, I think that's that's how it has to happen, right? So

Broudy:  people see their open minded until you give them something that they're not used to, and then they sort

J.C. Freeman:  of, because it feels awkward, I mean, you know, and and I've started saying this recently, but any if you make a change, any change worth making, there's gonna be a learning curve, and if that change doesn't bring on a learning curve, well, it's probably not great, that great of a change, right, because if you're tackling the issue head on. Well, first of all, it's an issue and you've been doing something probably not the best way and it's gonna take a lot of effort, something differently, right, But anyway, so, you know, from the coaching perspective, obviously the first thing you're trying to do is earn their trust, right? Um and I think there's kind of two ways you can do that, the first is just uh somebody knowing that you have their best interests at heart, right? And then the second one is actually helping them, right? And so with the Broudy system, if you can, instead of maybe someone teaching without the Broudy system and obviously there are people out there, I'm not trying to knock anybody, but there are people, there are coaches out there that probably teach a lot of these concepts unknowingly, right? So they can they can help the individual by, you know, having their best interests at heart and actually helping them. But unfortunately there's there's some some stuff out there that's not super helpful. So, you know, if you want to be a good coach kind of in my mind, it's like, hey, you know, it's not that hard to have somebody's best interest at heart, right? I mean, that's that kind of comes with come comes with the landscape of the job, that's why you're a coach to begin with you, like helping people, right? But but then if you can, if you can communicate and have have the individual, realize you have their best interests at heart and then on top of that help them improve significantly faster, right? Which is what the Broudy system does now you're able to earn somebody's trust uh much, much more quickly, right? And we were actually talking about this the other day, you know Jeff Bezos right? Um You know he used to talk about all the time with the shareholders and his letters to the shareholders about how important it is to move with speed. Right? So how important it is for an organization to move quickly. So think about that. Okay. So in my opinion because of the Broudy system when we have a new student we were able to gain their trust much more quickly and thoroughly. Right then if it wasn't for the Broudy system, okay? So if if you can empower somebody Start to empower them right in three months compared to nine months and be able to do it that much more quickly? I mean how important is that for you as an organization? Right. Because now they're more likely to stick with you. Right. They're less likely to try other options. Right. I mean six months is a long time. So if they're still trying to fill you out and still going well I know he's a passionate coach but I don't know if he's really I don't know if I'm feeling the improvement. Well they're going to try something else and they should. Right. I mean they should really I mean it's nothing personal. But does that does that make sense?

Broudy:  Yeah it does. So you're basically telling me that anyone who walks into that place it's like the roach motel or something. They leave they come in but they don't leave

J.C. Freeman:  right right now now and I'll say this and sometimes they do and and you know I used to struggle with that because you know, I do take a lot of pride in how we do things but but now because of the Broudy system and how confident I am and how we approach things and how we do them here and the culture that we have, I can um you know, um I can wrap my head around it more easily and I can almost and some people would say this is crazy, but I can almost encourage that that person to try something different, you know I mean and say, hey look if you feel the need to explore this, do it and I support that and we'll always be here for you and you know, I don't know the statistics on this, but the vast majority of the time they come back and you don't know how long it's gonna be before they do, but they do and and that I think I think that approach maybe explains us better than anything else because again, that's how much we care about the person and the individual and how much we, you know, I want to empower them to the point where we're comfortable letting you go see if the grass is greener because we feel pretty strongly it's not right? Yeah,

Broudy:  yeah, yeah, no, I uh I like that. Well I've I've had the same with my students when I was coaching a lot, you know, they'd say they'd go, oh, so and so gave me a free clinic, you know, they were always offering, you know, steve and all these guys free clinics because they know that if they bring in one good player it would attract 10 other players that were paying. So giving away one, you know, kind of like Agassi and bullet terry's right? He didn't pay, but he brought in a lot of players. Um, but then they always come back to me and say, you know, Jack, all they do is yell move your

J.C. Freeman:  feet for two

Broudy:  hours. All I heard was move your feet, he says, I don't care that it's free and there were a few good players, it's just annoying, you know, it's just they run around with their arms crossed, you know, thinking that that that they're they're doing something, but all they're really doing is yelling at you and telling you to move your feet. Maybe my kids, my kids really like to work smart, like you said earlier, a lot of them didn't like to work hard, mention any names, but they didn't like to work hard, they like to work smart and they were still, you know, top five in the country And you know what as they got to be older 18 and went to college and then when a couple of them went pro Then they learn to work harder because they want to make money or they want to be tough. But as a junior you're not gonna get many, there will be a few, you're not going to get that many 14 year olds to say, yeah, let's take 45 minutes of our two hours and do running drills. They want to play kids

J.C. Freeman:  wanna, right? I mean, no, and and I loved the podcast with nick the other day and and so there there's definitely there are some pros to that environment. Like he was saying like, yeah, yeah, I mean

Broudy:  there's a few kids,

J.C. Freeman:  yeah, I mean you become stronger and you develop more endurance and all that good stuff. But again, that that's in my opinion, right? I mean that should be that kind of the afterthought the next step. I

Broudy:  mean you

J.C. Freeman:  want people to fall in love with this game. This can tennis is a beautiful game, it's an incredible game, is such a great representation of life. There there's really nothing like it in my opinion, right? And there's obviously you can learn uh lots of great lessons through competition and other sports as competition of course, but I mean, you know, in our minds, tennis is is the holy Grail, right? And and so that's what we want. I mean we want, we want you to come out and play tennis and fall in love with the game and have fun while doing it and the Broudy system really facilitates that, right? Because again, you're working smart, so you actually feel better, you recognize, and you realize that you're becoming a better tennis player and then from there, especially as a tennis coach, that's our, that's our biggest responsibility, you know, I don't have a degree in physiologic, I can't even say the

Broudy:  word right?

J.C. Freeman:  I'm not a strength and conditioning coach, I mean I'm a tennis coach, okay. And, and you know, I have, of course I have people come to me, hey, why don't y'all runnin clinic and stuff? Well, you know, we're tennis coaches and we definitely do certain drills

Broudy:  that when

J.C. Freeman:  you play tennis, you're gonna get, you know,

Broudy:  you're gonna

J.C. Freeman:  Get the cardio okay. But again, we want to do it by playing tennis, we're not gonna make you run sprints for 45 minutes, like you said, there's better people to pay for that than us.

Broudy:  I've always felt that way myself, I was like, you know, there's a conditioning coach, there's this system over here and, and like there was one in Del mar, I think it was called and I would send my kids there, I would send my kids there and I would send them to other places and

J.C. Freeman:  yeah,

Broudy:  you're right, but we're responsible for for creating their game and helping break game and give them confidence. So yeah,

J.C. Freeman:  and and if they want, and and once they make that decision to work hard and they start doing that stuff, We support that 110%. I mean, I you know, through my experience and journey, I mean tennis journey, I have tons of information about that stuff, you know, and I willingly, you know, give it to them and yeah, I mean, I think as you would agree, you know, players do get to that point where they do have to start doing that those things,

Broudy:  but not not the majority, the moral majority just want to play a nice game, right results, they just want to play a good game, a respectable, respectable game to where they feel like I'm not gonna humiliate myself, I look pretty good, I feel good, I'm not sore when I finish playing my elbow doesn't hurt and I live to play another day,

J.C. Freeman:  Absolutely, 100%. But again, you gotta have that too before you do start wanting to work hard because if you start working hard before you get that then it does become uh it becomes a drag.

Broudy:  Yeah, I went through that journey myself junior, I went through that journey and it was always and every, every morning and every night I go to bed and I think to myself, am I better than I was yesterday or last week, I'm not sure you know what I mean? And that's that was a real big issue for me in the 14th and the

J.C. Freeman:  16th you're being and you are being uh you weren't being very hard on yourself with that question? I was asking myself, am I good enough? Yeah, I mean,

Broudy:  I think a lot of players, you're

J.C. Freeman:  going easy on yourself. I mean, I was going to bed thinking, am I good enough? I may just not be that good of a tennis player, I'm working my absolute tail off,

Broudy:  I get

J.C. Freeman:  the results I want, you know,

Broudy:  I read you, I'm right with you. I know that's how I felt as a junior, and it's a very frustrating way to feel because you're not sure, you know, you're seeing your friends hang out and have fun and lots of laughs and maybe have a few beers, you know this and that when they get to be 17 and 18, and then you're wondering, am I just, you know, my squandering my youth here? I mean, everyone is on their dating girls and I'm I'm grinding it out on the tennis court and, you know, so questioning yourself, like that is not the most fun thing in the

J.C. Freeman:  world. Well, I mean, it could be

Broudy:  enough insecurity, you know?

J.C. Freeman:  Yeah, I mean, it it can really be debilitating at times. I mean, you know, and just even from the other perspective of, you know, when you when you don't feel like you're able to work smart or you don't know how to well then, and I'd be curious to know this about you, I mean, how did you think about taking a day off Much less two days? That

Broudy:  was the other thing that irritated me, the best players in my section, they'd go skiing, they do this, they do that, not me. I didn't even want to take a holiday off. You know,

J.C. Freeman:  it was too risky

Broudy:  because we can't get

J.C. Freeman:  it off. You wouldn't get better.

Broudy:  I did I did a podcast yesterday where I spoke at the U. S. P. T. A. Convention here in the Intermountain and I said, you know, I said you were so afraid when you were young to lose your field because it was all about feel and that's what, you know, empowered me with the system is if I lose my feel, if I haven't played for a month. So what line up to 45 keep your hips continuous. You know what I mean? Make sure you're convex and contact whatever, you know, whatever the case is, the three fundamentals, I could always intellectualize my field back where I couldn't do that as a junior. If I didn't play for two or three days, I'm like, oh my God, I'm gonna lose it. And then by thinking you're gonna lose it, of course you start to tighten, you start to tighten up and then so things don't work naturally.

J.C. Freeman:  You know, it becomes a, it becomes a very vicious cycle. But now you're now you're you're trapped and you have no way of getting out right? You're you're darned if you do and you're darned if you don't. So anyways.

Broudy:  Yeah, that's

J.C. Freeman:  that's that's something we could go deeper into.

Broudy:  Yeah. Well I was gonna say J. C. I I mean we uh we've had a nice chat. I'd like to do this again because there's a several questions, there's several questions I didn't get to and I'm sure everyone would like to hear the answer to those as well. But I

J.C. Freeman:  hope so. Nobody else likes to hear me talk about this stuff,

Broudy:  especially

J.C. Freeman:  my wife is like,

Broudy:  okay, believe me, mine just had to take, my mind has had to take the dog for a walk. She just couldn't take it anymore, you know?

J.C. Freeman:  Right. Right.

Broudy:  But no. Well it's very as I knew it would be very insightful and you've got a good head on his shoulders, my friend, you really do and you put things so people really I think they'll have a nice take away from this.

J.C. Freeman:  So I hope so.

Broudy:  I want to thank

J.C. Freeman:  you.

Broudy:  Me too. That's what we're here for.

J.C. Freeman:  I appreciate your time.

Broudy:  Yeah, I want to thank

J.C. Freeman:  everybody else's that listens to this maybe, you know.

Broudy:  Yeah. Alright, Well stay living at the 45.

J.C. Freeman:  I

Broudy:  know you will and we'll we'll we'll catch you on the rebound.

J.C. Freeman:  Alright, sounds good, Jack. Thank you. Thank

Broudy:  see you

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